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Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

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Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?
Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

NeoMetallix > 08-05-2018, 05:59 PM

From what I've seen, the answer is yes.

"Sonic Team are washed up"
"The Mania team should just make Sonic games forever and replace Sonic Team"
"Sonic Team are a bunch of hacks"
"They need to fire everyone working at Sonic Team"
"They should get indie devs to make a 3D Sonic game and replace Sonic Team"

These are just a few examples of the types of things I've seen people say in regards to Sonic Team, some even on this very site. Some even try to hide behind the excuse that it's okay to say these sorts of things about Japanese developers because "they aren't ever gonna see it lol, but I'd never say it for a western developer".

Takashi lizuka has been with this franchise since 1994 and if I had a penny for every time I saw someone say something along the lines of "Fire Iizuka!", "He's a fraud!", I'd have a lot of pennies. Do the people saying these things actually know what Iizuka's current role even is with the franchise? I've seen the same sentiments leveled at Morio Kishimoto (Director of Colours, Lost World and Forces) and it's absurd. People love to place blame on a singular person, but truth of the matter if there are a lot of things that factor into a game being less than stellar.

Look, I'm not trying to act high and mighty here. Yes, you are allowed to critique modern Sonic games and yes you are allowed to suggest ways you think they could be improved. Just please have a sense of humility about yourself.

I'm not 100% happy with the direction the franchise is taking in 3D either and I'm not even sure what the current state of Sonic Team even is. Supposedly, most of the talent from Unleashed - Generations don't even work there anymore. What I'm basically saying here is that I don't think it's right to pin the blame on a singular person or group of people for a bad game, when there are a number of different factors that go into the development process.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

Atia > 08-06-2018, 01:43 AM

I feel like a lot of the issue with nostalgia goggles on that think "wow why is it so hard for them to just make a game that's like the old games, I mean look the fans can do it it's easy" while ignoring a lot of the reality of the situation?
Not to mention Mania was (and is) fairly rough around the edges in a lot of ways, suggesting the developers ran up hard against deadlines.

On top of that... I don't really need the nostalgia? It's true that they need to figure out why their attempts at putting together a formula so rarely seem to actually work, but if I wanted to play games like the classics I have... the classics. In my opinion at least I don't have that much of a problem with them experimenting, I just wish they were better at getting a worthwhile game together before announcing/releasing it.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

Ludi > 08-06-2018, 01:59 AM

Yes and no. They've had trouble making consistently good Sonic games for a while now. Mostly because they have trouble settling on a distinct style for the series, I think. Every other game tries to experiment with something new that doesn't always land as well as they'd hoped and even if it does they find a way to ruin it in a later game (See Lost World's handling of Wisps).

Honestly it feels like Sonic Team sometimes tries too hard to make everyone happy, and as a result makes nobody happy in the long run. As far as I've heard Forces was an average experience at best that kind of played things safe by using things people liked in the past. Having Classic Sonic in it was wholly unnecessary and was just included as a marketing decision. I think if they'd focused on refining Modern and Avatar stages and just done a plot around that the game would have been fine. But instead they had to focus some development time on the classic stages, taking away from time they might've had for tune-ups.

Honestly, they just need to focus on one core playstyle and designing fun stages based around that rather than adding different spins for the sake of variety. It's the way Mania did it and that's a lot of fun. Sure, it may mean being stuck with solo Sonic titles but if it means more consistently solid experiences like Colours then I'm on board.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

Wingzzzzy > 08-06-2018, 10:51 AM

I feel like the hate words sonic team is absurd as someone who is a part of a lot of fandom. Like wanting the head of sonic team to have no job is fucking idiotic
like i am sorry this is not how we need to treat developers yes they will make bad mistakes. But they are trying there best to make sonic great again.

And about the comics i support most fan derision about idw destroying the sonic comic. As time and time again idw always added stupid agenda to there comics look at gi joe comics.

But still sonic team is trying there best but i feel like the sonic fans are just in there bubble not wanting to move in to new territories.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

NeoMetallix > 08-06-2018, 10:57 AM

I agree, I think it's dumb how they always call for Iizuka to resign as if that will somehow change things. It's Sonic TEAM not Sonic Person. But I also agree that they're inconsistent but I think a lot of that is due to Sega being dumb. I first heard Forces was in the planning stages since Generations but it didn't actually go into production until a year before it released. A little more time in the oven is what they need.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

RedFox99 > 08-06-2018, 11:01 AM

The Boost formula just... Lacks depth. Problem is, the foundation they created there wasn't good enough for anything other than linear corridors and GOTTAGOFAST. A proper Sonic platformer needs to be controllable but also allow for significant variety in level design. That's what Sonic Team just does not get imo. I do think it would be good to shake things up a bit but I don't think they need to be shut down just to let Whitehead's team come in and build everything. They couldn't do a proper 3D game on their own.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

Wingzzzzy > 08-06-2018, 11:08 AM

(08-06-2018, 10:57 AM)Metallix Wrote: I agree, I think it's dumb how they always call for Iizuka to resign as if that will somehow change things. It's Sonic TEAM not Sonic Person. But I also agree that they're inconsistent but I think a lot of that is due to Sega being dumb. I first heard Forces was in the planning stages since Generations but it didn't actually go into production until a year before it released. A little more time in the oven is what they need.

At the same time i feel it was rushed because most of the time for the game was on the Hedgehog engine 2 there new engine for modern consoles and modern graphic api's. like 2 years out of 4 years was on development for the engine. Engines are very hard to develop but we have to hope that we get a better game in the new engine. plus the stupidity of fans wanting to scrap two years of work on engine to use the same hedgehog engine that they used in Sonic Generation. For me i liked Sonic Forces as a Engine Tech Demo.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

NeoMetallix > 08-06-2018, 11:35 AM

(08-06-2018, 11:08 AM)Wingzzzzy Wrote:
(08-06-2018, 10:57 AM)Metallix Wrote: I agree, I think it's dumb how they always call for Iizuka to resign as if that will somehow change things. It's Sonic TEAM not Sonic Person. But I also agree that they're inconsistent but I think a lot of that is due to Sega being dumb. I first heard Forces was in the planning stages since Generations but it didn't actually go into production until a year before it released. A little more time in the oven is what they need.

At the same time i feel it was rushed because most of the time for the game was on the Hedgehog engine 2 there new engine for modern consoles and modern graphic api's. like 2 years out of 4 years was on development for the engine. Engines are very hard to develop but we have to hope that we get a better game in the new engine. plus the stupidity of fans wanting to scrap two years of work on engine to use the same hedgehog engine that they used in Sonic Generation. For me i liked Sonic Forces as a Engine Tech Demo.

You know what? I didn't think of that and I usually recognize things like that. Yeah the engine most likely took a lot of time! If they get more development time next game I'm sure it'll be of better quality.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

Flora85 > 09-17-2018, 07:23 PM

I'm in the middle about this.

While yes, it is quite a roller coaster with Sonic games, some are experimenting gaming schemes and such, as well as sometimes rushing to get the games done, at the same time, the problem Sonic Team has can be more complicated than what we can see. And as someone that is a Sonic fan for a while and see the franchise go through the ups and downs, it can be a hard sight when they release game a bit less than people's expectations. Like Sonic '06 or Sonic Boom (the game series. The show did pretty well). Sometimes I kinda wish they notice what they are doing wrong and try to avoid it happening again. But no one is perfect.

However, like HollyYoshi pointed out, it is disgusting see so many so call "Sonic Fans" overreact when things goes wrong with any new game release. And even when the game is pretty good or at least decent, they NITPICK the littlest thing that isn't perfect. I get it, there are some things in some games that could've done better. But to be so unnecessarily brutal and childish with sharing your dislikes about a game isn't going to do much, not to mention that is making the actual Sonic fans look bad.

Although yes, we do have a right to critique a game. We can't be yes men or ignore what is actually wrong with something. But there MUST be a balance of how to express our likes and dislikes with games. And everyone must understand that Sonic Team can't be people pleaser and do EVERYTHING they want in the game. And just respectful share their criticism of their like and dislike. Not "SONIC THEM IS THE WORSE" or "THEY SHOULD RETIRED" and other nonsensical comments.

I personally feel Sonic Team should take it easy with Sonic games in terms of not rushing and to try to improve their engine and stuff. But of course, it is unnecessary to bash them in such ways that makes you look extremely spoiled.
RE: Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

MadmanRB > 09-17-2018, 08:23 PM

Oh come on, how can anyone defend Sonic Team now?
If you ask me you are being too kind and the fans are not being harsh enough.

We cannot afford to reward horseshit and ignore Sonic Teams crappy track record.

Fire Iizuka

Disband Sonic team and or replace it with something else

And make Sonic the hedgehog great again

Sorry but after forces I think Sonic team needs to be disbanded and replaced

Sonic team would not know how to make a good game these days if it jumped up their ass.

Not to mention the sad pathetic shell of a company that is Sega.

Stop being a apologist for mediocre games and horrible gameplay.

Sonic team has screwed up too many times, its time to let something else take things over.

Let the mania crew take things over because at least they know what a good game looks like, not some boost formula shitfest with a crap storyline.

I refuse to give sonic team leeway, I wash my hands with the lot of them.
Same goes to sega

You will see no words of kindness from me, Sega and Sonic team have earned my scorn
Hell the only reason sega is still around is for nostalgia nothing more, they would be dead without it.

I honestly wish people would stop defending them, they have ruined Sonic for many and its only Mania that is at least keeping people invested.

Leave the franchise in good hands like Whitehead and the like, sure mania has its flaws but its still a better game than Forces by a long mile because at least its a challenge as opposed to hitting the boost button and finishing the game in under two hours.

It would be something if forces was just a fluke but the franchise has had more downs then ups over the last 12 years or even longer if you want me to mention the utter shite that is Shadow the hedgehog (game).

From the disaster that was 06, to the unoriginal wii exclusive storybook games, to werewolf sonic, to Sonic 4 and free riders, to maybe some hope with Colors and Generations only to be put down again by the mediocre lost world and the very lazily designed Forces

Kindness left the building long ago for me and Forces broke the camels back.

If you want to know the real reasons why people like me want Sonic team to stop making games it doesn't take long to see all the bad and or mixed reviews the games have had within at least the last 12 years.

And yes this does sound harsh but believe me this is only the tip of the iceberg baby and my axe is ready to grind
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Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

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Are people being way too harsh on Sonic Team?

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