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- Act III: Sonic's Game Stadium
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- The seventh Chaos Emerald hurt the franchise.
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| The seventh Chaos Emerald hurt the franchise. | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Apr 16 2015, 11:48 AM (321 Views) | |
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Apr 16 2015, 11:48 AM Post #1 |
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The majority of the Sonic games revolved around turning Super and defeating the final boss. Originally, there were six Chaos Emeralds. Also, the spin dash also hurt the series. |
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| Jenna Jay | Apr 16 2015, 11:58 AM Post #2 |
Stealing Talents!
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.... You want to give a few more reasons then that. Without that 7th Chaos Emerald the series would have ended after Sonic 2. |
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| Beowulf | Apr 16 2015, 12:35 PM Post #3 |
Thou Hast NO Need for Fancy Avatars
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I fail to see how spindash hurt Sonic.Hedgehogs are known to curl up when sensing danger. It isn't implemented the same way,but at least Sega was being somewhat true to the animal itself. Spindash also saved people from major headaches(you remember the sloped areas in Sonic 1 in which you had to gain momentum to get across). |
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| Ludichaos | Apr 16 2015, 01:22 PM Post #4 |
[Outrealm Vagabond]
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"Not necessarily" to the majority of this thread so far, though I can see where some points are coming from. Problem with this particular discussion is it's too reliant on what-ifs. If the seventh Chaos Emerald had never been introduced, would Sonic Team have introduced Super Sonic anyway? There's nothing stopping them from making Super Sonic a transformation that only requires six emeralds. If Super Sonic hadn't been introduced would the series have ended after Sonic 2? Probably not considering you can complete the game and get roughly the same ending without the emeralds. Sonic 3 & Knuckles' story could have easily been altered to not have anything to do with Sonic having the Chaos Emeralds in his possession at the start. Also the statement that the majority of the series now revolves around collecting the emeralds to turn Super so the final boss can be defeated is incorrect. In terms of plot a good majority of the time the Emeralds are brought into play as a part of one of Eggman's schemes. Whether Sonic and Co. attempt to get them first or if they just happen to be there at the end of the story as a result of the events leading up to it changes around a lot. For example: Sonic Adventure 2 had them all gathered by the end because Shadow had been collecting them to power the Eclipse Cannon, and when it all went wrong during the Final Story it was simply convenient to harness their power for the final battle. Because how else are two hedgehogs supposed to fight in space? On top of that collecting the 7 Emeralds is completely optional in at least half of the games they make an appearance in. In some cases they're required to unlock a true ending, giving you some incentive to do so, but a lot of the time you can make do without. Off the top of my head the Advance trilogy endings work just fine without the need for the Extra Zone. But the Extra Zone boss fights were generally so cool I wanted to work towards collecting the emeralds. Which wasn't easy in those games. Especially without guides. Especially in Sonic Advance 2. That all said, the last two games to be released haven't included the Chaos Emeralds at all. Those battles managed to be plenty exciting in their own right, if not a little too easy. But that's been true for a lot of Sonic bosses of late. As for Spin Dash, I watched a video recently that went over the original Sonic the Hedgehog's strong points and I can see why you'd think it might hurt the series, but it's not really a bad thing. Not to mention it's an option I almost never use regardless (running and rolling on slopes is almost always more effective at building speed and doesn't break flow). It's not like the game ever requires you to use it (save for breakable walls in S3&K). |
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HollyYoshi
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Apr 16 2015, 05:12 PM Post #5 |
I object to your claims
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First off, ashesfromsegaforums, it would help if you could explain in better detail why you have these opinions. Second, I can't see just how adding a seventh emerald did anything to hurt the franchise. It's like Ludi said, Sega could have still added Super Sonic anyway - the only difference would be him needing six emeralds instead of seven. In regards to the Spin Dash, I find that it helps the gameplay rather than hinders it. While basic rolling certainly isn't difficult and can keep the flow better at points, the Spin Dash is still a useful ability to help you gain speed and get up slopes. |
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| Shyna | Apr 17 2015, 12:54 PM Post #6 |
Ice Cap Act 1
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I think it's good that there's 7 Chaos Emeralds. It helps it go into many other things that are in groups of Seven, like the Seas, Snow White's Dwarves, The World Wonders, The number of Continents, The Seven Deadly Sins, and other such Seven things. Also, note that the Good Ending of Sonic 1 doesn't have him going Super Sonic, since he only had Six then. You can assume he later finally found the 7th one not too long after. Edited by Shyna, Apr 17 2015, 12:55 PM.
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| RabidChoco | Apr 17 2015, 03:21 PM Post #7 |
Sandopolis Act 2
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For the sake of debate, you can use the same (lack of) logic as the OP to argue that the worst thing to happen to the franchise is the fact that it was published and sold at all. But in specific: Ludi brings up a good point; if they didn't choose to add the extra emerald because seven's a number more associated with luck, good, and all sorts of other protagonist-y things, they would probably have added Super form anyways with just six. And the spin-dash: you'll find few to agree with your point; if I've been unable to advance through some stages normally, the spin dash has usually been the "kick" I need to overcome the obstacle (those loops in Sonic 2's Hill Top Zone come to mind)... and if the spin dash doesn't do it, I'm usually pretty hosed (those way-too-deep spike-bottom pits in Mystic Cave, for example). So in summary, OP: you're blaming things for Sonic's decline that are, at best, circumstantial. No, what I think is really the problem for the series is its former popularity giving rise to expectations that nobody can really fulfill. |
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HollyYoshi
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Apr 18 2015, 05:33 PM Post #8 |
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I object to your claims
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What I find to be the problem is that SEGA is so inconstant with what they want to do with the series. |
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| Ludichaos | Apr 18 2015, 08:50 PM Post #9 |
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[Outrealm Vagabond]
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Well on one hand I feel like Sonic Team deserves some praise for being willing to try something new. The main problem tends to be it's not always executed well or done for the right reasons. Ideally they should hammer down a game mechanic that's fun and then work on stage design that complements it. While the parkour system in Lost World had some real potential for fun I can't help but feel the level design let it down. But I'd be very interested in seeing how it worked with some more traditional level design. |
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| FiniteZero | Apr 19 2015, 06:19 AM Post #10 |
Good vibes.
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...You know, the original poster is kinda onto something. The seventh Special Stage is always a b-tch. thatwasajoke Though I have my fondness for Sonic 1, the spindash is an iconic part of Sonic's moveset. It. allows you to get to moving fast quickly, but it's still up to you to maintain that speed. |
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Apr 19 2015, 06:59 AM Post #11 |
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No, here's what I slightly mean by that. Ever since the seventh Chaos Emerald was made, players could easily finish the stage with little to no challenge. What's the point of all that effort the developers put into the platforming and the challenge if there's a way to surpass that? As for the spin dash, it doesn't make sense physics-wise. |
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| FiniteZero | Apr 19 2015, 07:26 AM Post #12 |
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Good vibes.
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I think you mean "With Super Sonic". And that's sort of the point: A reward for finishing the often tough-as-nails Special Stages. Also, having a blue hedgehog destroy metal machines with that spin jump makes no physical sense either. How the heck would spines cut through metal? He also jumps far too high for legs like those. Also, his eyes are too big, Eggman's eggmobile shouldn't be able to fly with such puny propulsion. |
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Cee Jay Haych
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Apr 19 2015, 07:44 AM Post #13 |
"I didn't use the whole thing ...."
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And conjoined, Don't for get that. . . . |
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HollyYoshi
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Apr 19 2015, 04:22 PM Post #14 |
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I object to your claims
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Oh, you mean with Super Sonic? Okay, that's if the player can get all seven Chaos Emeralds. Something that's not easy for beginner players to accomplish. Hell, the only classic game I've gotten all the emeralds without cheat codes is, ironically, Sonic 1. Not only that, but getting and keeping the fifty rings in order to use Super Sonic with the seven emeralds isn't all that simple in the later levels. Especially freaking Metropolis Zone with the goddamn Asterons, Slicers, and Shellcrackers.
You do realize that players can either a) put getting all seven Chaos Emeralds off until towards the end, thereby not getting the opportunity to abuse Super Sonic and still have a challenging game or b) choose just not get the emeralds at all, again allowing them to have a challenge, don't you?
Neither does Tails' ability to spin his namesakes like rotary blades. Even ignoring the elephant in the room that is his ability to fly by doing such, his tails should realistically get twisted together. Also, going by this logic, the Mario series suffered when they gave Mario the ability to fly using raccoon ears and a tail in Super Mario Bros. 3. Because we all know that raccoon ears can give you incredible lift. |
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| Adorkable | Apr 21 2015, 10:34 PM Post #15 |
Angel Island Act 2
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I disagree, I think the 7th Emerald helped Sonic and the series. Now with the power of the 7 Chaos Emeralds, Sonic has the power to defeat almost any boss. He and he friends can be guaranteed that Sonic can save the day. Except for that Dark Oak nonsense, haha. |
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