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John Kerry reaches US/Afghan Agreement; Were not pulling out.
Topic Started: Nov 20 2013, 05:10 PM (192 Views)
VlaDDrakkeN
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The Jester
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KABUL – While many Americans have been led to believe the war in Afghanistan will soon be over, a draft of a key U.S.-Afghan security deal obtained by NBC News shows the United States is prepared to maintain military outposts in Afghanistan for many years to come, and pay to support hundreds of thousands of Afghan security forces.

The wide-ranging document, still unsigned by the United States and Afghanistan, has the potential to commit thousands of American troops to Afghanistan and spend billions of U.S. taxpayer dollars.

The document outlines what appears to be the start of a new, open-ended military commitment in Afghanistan in the name of training and continuing to fight al-Qaeda. The war in Afghanistan doesn’t seem to be ending, but renewed under new, scaled-down U.S.-Afghan terms.

“The Parties acknowledge that continued U.S. military operations to defeat al-Qaeda and its affiliates may be appropriate and agree to continue their close cooperation and coordination toward that end,” the draft states.

The 25-page “Security and Defense Cooperation Agreement Between the United States of America and the Islamic Republic of Afghanistan” is a sweeping document, vague in places, highly specific in others, defining everything from the types of future missions U.S. troops would be allowed to conduct in Afghanistan, to the use of radios and the taxation of American soldiers and contractors.

The bilateral security agreement will be debated this week in Kabul by around 2,500 village elders, academics and officials in a traditional Loya Jirga. While the Loya Jirga is strictly consultative, Afghan President Hamid Karzai has said he won’t sign it without the Jirga’s approval.

The copy of the draft -- the full text is available here -- is dated July 25, 2013. As a working draft, it is particularly revealing because it shows the back and forth negotiations, as U.S. and Afghan officials added words and struck out paragraphs. The changes are marked by annotations still revealed in the text. The document is a work in progress. US officials say there have been more changes since July. The draft, however, does indicate the scope of this possible agreement with major implications for Washington, Kabul, U.S. troops and the continuation of America’s longest war.

A U.S.-Afghan agreement could mean a longer stay for American forces in Afghanistan, which requests that about 15,000 soldiers remain for at least a decade. NBC's Richard Engel reports.

Taken as a whole, the document describes a basic U.S.-Afghan exchange. Afghanistan would allow Washington to operate military bases to train Afghan forces and conduct counter-terrorism operations against al-Qaeda after the current mission ends in 2014. For that foothold in this volatile mountain region wedged between Pakistan and Iran, the United States would agree to sustain and equip Afghanistan's large security force, which the government in Kabul currently cannot afford. The deal, according to the text, would take effect on Jan. 1, 2015 and “shall remain in force until the end of 2024 and beyond.” It could be terminated by either Washington or Kabul with two years advance written notice.


Source
http://worldnews.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/11/19/21534305-endless-afghanistan-us-afghan-agreement-would-keep-troops-in-place-and-funds-flowing-perhaps-indefinitely

So to add one more to the list of broken promises, Afghanistan will now be under our occupation for longer than 2014. Perhaps even beyond that. So we will not be pulling out of Afghanistan(Than again, we didn't quite really pull out of Iraq anyway).

So much for change.
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Lord SillyNipples
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Sure beats the alternative though. It may not be our country but if we pull out, certain groups that just love us will go all out on the fragile security forces there and turn Afghanistan back into a terrorist safe-haven, like last time.
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VlaDDrakkeN
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Lord SillyNipples
Nov 21 2013, 10:46 PM
Sure beats the alternative though. It may not be our country but if we pull out, certain groups that just love us will go all out on the fragile security forces there and turn Afghanistan back into a terrorist safe-haven, like last time.
Its not about that. Afghanistan is called the Graveyard of Empires for a reason.

If you look at a map of the Middle East and our US bases, weve been putting alot of them around where Iran is. Heck, were supporting the Al-quida linked rebels in Syria. It was barely about fighting terrorists, as much as achieveing and control of the region.
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Lord Eileanach
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. . .

The thing is though - the US, I think, wants to be the world's policeman, and it just shouldn't do that. If these countries want to blow each other to smithereens it's THEIR affair, not the United States personal affairs. If a country declares war on you fair enough, the war on "terror" was a farce to begin with; so many deaths and now look at us so many years later still poking our noses in and letting our soldiers die in a war like this.

They need to stop making false promises. The people of Britain are sick to death of it, even if Cameron (Obama's little lap dog) is pissed off we said "No get out of there damn it!" surely Obama hasn't made the USA a dictatorship (yet) so if they put it to a vote I am sure all the families want less killing and their families back together?

-- Hates politics; doesn't like rambling much, but I did, sorry --
~Eileanach~
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Lord Talancir D'Landior
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bah. in summary, flip flop and placating the masses is still the name of the game, and Obama is just another president among those in living memory who are not known for practicing what they preach. the end. get out now while the getting's good.
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Chompman
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And THIS is why i'm against the military. People will ROAP (Reach Out And Protest) against this. count on it.
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Lord Talancir D'Landior
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Seg-Kun Genesis
Nov 22 2013, 09:17 PM
And THIS is why i'm against the military. People will ROAP (Reach Out And Protest) against this. count on it.
being a former member of the us military, I take a strong exception to this statement as it stands. care to elaborate?
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Chompman
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The Jaw-ggernaught of Justice.
Talancir D'Landior
Nov 22 2013, 11:30 PM
Seg-Kun Genesis
Nov 22 2013, 09:17 PM
And THIS is why i'm against the military. People will ROAP (Reach Out And Protest) against this. count on it.
being a former member of the us military, I take a strong exception to this statement as it stands. care to elaborate?
Well, nothing much TO elaborate on. Think of all the family members that won't have a chance to see their kids, parents, etc. They'll have to remain there for all eternity (what i'm getting out of this.) I'm a family man myself. If i was in the military, I would simply quit while i still can. Life's too short for me to spend the rest of my days in a land far from my own, just because the higher up's want me to.

This war has gone on far enough. The US needs to lighten up on its load. We're already in enough trouble as it is. We're still in a recession, we still have loose ends that desperately need tying up (I'm looking at you, Obamacare,) and other things that i can no longer remember. Amen.

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Lord Talancir D'Landior
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Seg-Kun Genesis
Nov 23 2013, 09:36 AM
Talancir D'Landior
Nov 22 2013, 11:30 PM
Seg-Kun Genesis
Nov 22 2013, 09:17 PM
And THIS is why i'm against the military. People will ROAP (Reach Out And Protest) against this. count on it.
being a former member of the us military, I take a strong exception to this statement as it stands. care to elaborate?
Well, nothing much TO elaborate on. Think of all the family members that won't have a chance to see their kids, parents, etc. They'll have to remain there for all eternity (what i'm getting out of this.) I'm a family man myself. If i was in the military, I would simply quit while i still can. Life's too short for me to spend the rest of my days in a land far from my own, just because the higher up's want me to.

This war has gone on far enough. The US needs to lighten up on its load. We're already in enough trouble as it is. We're still in a recession, we still have loose ends that desperately need tying up (I'm looking at you, Obamacare,) and other things that i can no longer remember. Amen.

based on this I can understand why you're against the continuation of foreign deployments and involvements in general, but to say you stand against the military because they volunteered to follow orders, and so happen to be deployed in such a way that is in many ways contrary to what Obama claimed he wanted, is nonsensical.

"I don't like that the military should be so far away from home, so I am against the military." how does this make sense?
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Lord Eileanach
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. . .

I don't think having a military is "wrong" exactly, I think the issue lies more in that I think putting soldiers into countries, killing and making the locals feel harassed isn't really "right".

All countries need a military to protect themselves in the event of war, but I don't think America is doing that, they declared war, let's say blurred the lines to the point of a victory and are STILL occupying the place to help make it a democracy, just get the hell out of there and let the country do what it wants now the bad guys are out. It doesn't endear you to the populous if you try to force your own ideals on them. Not everywhere can or wants to a democracy.

I do think the soldiers should all come home now.
~Eileanach~
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Chompman
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Sorry to both Tal and Eileanach.

All of this is what i meant to say. I was just depressed when i saw that, and my depression easily shows as anger or resentment. Very sorry indeed.

But now that that's out of the way, i still stand by what i said. Less war, more change here. Why can't they follow this?
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Lord Eileanach
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. . .

No offence taken SK, no worries at all on my part, I think Tally being in the Armed Forces obviously felt a bit of a twinge from it. I was merely just saying that I think countries need some form of military to protect themselves, but I do agree there needs to be a big change and withdrawing from Afghanistan etc would be a wonderful and well-received change.

It might even get Obama some brownie points...

LOL... no.
~Eileanach~
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Chompman
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I'm sorry once again you guys.
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