What Religion or Lack Thereof Are You?

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What Religion or Lack Thereof Are You?; Yap.
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 29 2012, 08:43 PM (775 Views)
Wallace	Jul 29 2012, 08:43 PM Post #1
Break out the L-word. The other L-word. Posts: 1,889 Group: S Rank Hero Member #11,873 Joined: February 24, 2011	This topic's been done before, but the last one was lasted posted in in 2010, so yeah. Here you go. Me, personally, I'm a pantheist/ Einsteinian religion. I like to think that, as Carl Sagan brilliantly said, "The cosmos is also within us; we're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." We give, with our consciousness, life and self-awareness to the universe, and the universe gave to us the matter and laws of nature for such consciousness to arise within it. In other words, we are in the universe, and the universe is in us. I'm eager to see what others think or believe, and hopefully we can constructively discuss it. ^_^
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Replies:
Devy The Mutt	Jul 30 2012, 09:42 AM Post #16
'Ello, lad! Posts: 2,631 Group: E Rank Legend Member #12,660 Joined: December 29, 2011 Gender: Male Country: United States of America Steam ID: mxnneurosis Game Currently Playing: Oddworld: Abe's Oddysey	Luka Megurine Jul 30 2012, 09:11 AM 1. If you cannot prove that it could happen, it is foolish (according to me, because I know people will attack me for saying this) to believe that it could regardless. 2. I never said we could control all of what happened. I never said we could control most of what happened. As far as getting things done is concerned, humanity is by far inferior to the universe. 3. It seems to me that you are associating the unknown with religion. Which is fairly typical of most religions. Hitler was a very bad man. He was a very good speaker, and he got a lot of people to be okay with him killing millions of people. That does not mean that he is divine, or that he was influenced by any kind of divine intervention. 4. You're not doing a very good job at giving evidence to support these claims. I really don't have much to say about it until you stop arrogantly stating them as obviously true without any evidence to back it up. 5. There is very little distance from a stance that holds that any person who you deem to deserve to die does and a stance that holds that any person who you deem to deserve to die is at your disposal. In other words, thinking that any person deserves to die is almost the same as thinking that you can kill whoever you think deserves to die. It is a very pessimistic outlook on humanity and, regardless of what said person may have done, it is an immoral perspective. No person deserves to die. If someone has committed such grievous acts of terror or evil as the people you have mentioned, it is up to a rational court of law analyzing the situation through objective laws to determine whether they are guilty or innocent, and delivering appropriate punishment in the case of their guilt. The appropriate punishment for such evil acts is a life's sentence, with the guilty person being allowed to choose to be executed if he does not wish to live out the rest of his life in prison. It is not up to anyone whether anyone else deserves to live or to die. 6. As I said, the stance you hold is dangerously close to a genocidal one. Do you truly believe that another plague should come upon us to kill off most of us? Then what is the difference between that belief, and the belief that it is okay to kill whoever you deem to be below you and evil, without proper due process of any kind of law? The fact that, on top of this, you equate Hitler with divinity, is, in my eyes, deeply troubling. I actually laughed when you said I thought Hitler was divine. No, he's not divine and never will be because he's gone. Hitler can be CONSIDERED divine, but at a small, beginning extent. If Hitler can talk and persuade that much people, he is smart enough to be divine. NOT SAYING HE IS. Anyone can be a God. It depends on how many people worship him or her. Hey, no one's killing each other so why care if a plague happens or not? The only thing that's killing us is God and the fact that scientist experiment on diseases such as rabies and influenza. Did you know that Russia has the last frozen bacteria of Smallpox? They keep it for research. No, Hell no. That's for war and they cannot deny it. They can start something again that effected everyone for for over four hundred years. No evidence? I'm providing evidence of how our war started with the middle east, I provided a fact that supports my saying that Hitler can be CONSIDERED AS DIVINE, not to mention, I didn't even say that All people deserve to die. Some people do. Here, I'll make it better. Some people DON'T DESERVE TO BE BORN. It's better because it's not involving death. It's involving being non-existent. Thinking someone deserves to die does not mean I want to kill someone. I'm not moronic enough to do such a thing, nor do I want to hurt anyone. I just want someone else to do the job and I can wait. THAT'S AN ASSUMPTION. One thing that irks me, but I ignore it. If you assume things, call people a bad person because they're angry at ALMOST everybody that surrounds them, and over-exaggerating things make it worse. I'm not really a bad person to be honest. At least, I think I'm not. A lot of people think I am though. I just don't like the fact that I'm surrounded by people that act younger than what they should be and I act twice my age. I know this because even people say I know things that I shouldn't be knowing at my age. Bottom line is, I'm not going to speak anymore. This came to a simple "I believe in this" into a "well, this seems incorrect so how do you believe that?" debate. I'm not saying argument because none of us are really mad. It's just a conversation. But to end this statement, I'd just like to say that I'm Borderline Christian. I believe in God and Saints, I just don't believe in the Bible. It's too old and over-exaggerated. The book has changed over a thousand years. Scrolls are not longer existing, they have decayed and disintegrated over age. Oh, and if I made a mistake on what I said, my bad. I'm not doing so hot right now because I'm busy and losing track of what I say.
	*"The life I live will never be the same without you here..."*


Katsuko	Jul 30 2012, 10:16 AM Post #17
Sandopolis Act 1 Posts: 1,687 Group: S Rank Hero Member #1,933 Joined: August 14, 2007 Gender: Male	Quote: It should be self-evident in the fact that it is called the Word of God. If it is the Word of God, then it should be the law above all else, no? Firstly, the Bible never refers to itself as the word of God since the Bible was not written as the Bible, but as separate books for different purposes. The authority of the Bible rests on the Church, not on its own claims. Secondly, no. It would not follow from "God wrote the Bible" that the Bible is the ultimate key to perfection. Literature is a two-way street: Imperfect reader + perfect book = imperfect interpretation. Because words are only useful insofar as they have meaning in the reader's frame of reference, old books are limited as a way of communicating God's will. Quote: I was raised in a Christian family, and I was raised to believe that every single thing that happened in the Bible actually happened, from the 7-day creation to Noah's flood to the virgin birth to the resurrection of Jesus Christ. These are, of course, scientifically impossible. So, I was raised to interpret the Bible literally, and every church I have been to has said that it ought to be interpreted literally. Of course, there are other interpretations that go with that literal one such as philosophical and textual ones, but the literal interpretation is one I have never seen disclaimed by Christians. This is a common American Protestant fundamentalist point of view. If you go anywhere else in the world, or even interview American Catholics, you'll find that literalism is the belief of a radical minority. Quote: Yes, I know that Zeus and the other gods of his nature were used to explain specific parts of nature. I understand that. But it's the idea of intelligent design inherent to most traditional religions that promotes ignorance. Take Isaac Newton for example. He was brilliant. He discovered the laws of motion and of gravity and he invented Calculus (practically on a dare to explain why planets orbit on an ellipsis), all before he turned 26. When he was confronted with the problem that not only did the Sun "tug" on Earth, but so did Jupiter, and that because of this the orbits must be incredibly unstable and that for some reason, the orbits were still working. It was at this point that he claims, "Oh, it must be the work of God!" and stops discovering. Whenever you say that, "Oh, it must surely be the work of God and beyond our comprehension, we shouldn't worry about how it works," you are putting off discovering and knowledge in favor of ignorance. Not just Christianity, either. There was a time in the early 1000s AD in the Middle East where Baghdad was the intellectual capitol of the world. They were discovering stars and naming them, they were creating things like algebra. And then some bright Islamic imams began saying that mathematics and science were the work of the devil, and that period of scientific enlightenment shuts down, and has not recovered since. If you want more examples, watch the Neil deGrasse Tyson video I linked to earlier. All of this involves theology used to provide a cause for empirical phenomena--religion used to do the work of science, i.e. gods of the gaps. What I'm referring to are religions that address problems for which science is an inadequate tool, what Kant calls problems of pure reason. These examples are not religion qua science, and the "religion as ignorance" argument does not have relevance to them. Quote: I cannot understand why an omnipotent, omniscient, omnibenevolent being would create such imperfect beings and systems and then allow them to fall into evil, something that he abhors and must turn away from because it is by nature so in opposition to him I think free will suffices to the abstract concern. First, evil does not have to be created but is a necessary logical implication of the existence of good. Where there is a positive, its negation is possible. If this is the case, then it follows the problem is not so much why did God allow for evil in the universe, but why did God allow evil to be actualized? Suppose God wanted to create autonomous creations with free will. In order for free will as an actual function to exist, there must be moral choice. Analytically, a "moral choice" involves serious deliberation between a better and an inferior decision. Given the autonomy of the chooser, it follows that God would have to allow for inferior choices in order for free will to have meaningful reality. So, is there any reason to believe free will is valuable enough to legitimize evil? I think Ayn Rand herself provides an excellent case that free will is fundamental to anything humanly valuable. A self-realizing autonomous being at rest instigates value and offers its progressive self as its most valuable contribution to the world. Such a being must be an agent; value cannot exist to a mere machine. Quote: Also, the fact that he is supposedly omnibenevolent is contradicted in the Bible, especially the Old Testament, where he's constantly jealous of gods that don't even exist, and highly insecure about himself. Oh, and all the people he killed. Worth noting that the commandment, "Though shalt not kill" only applied to not killing people within your tribe, and that anyone else was fair game. Oh, and that commandment doesn't apply to God at all. My approach to the Bible isn't the same as fundamentalist realism. I understand jealousy not as literal insecurity, but as part of the overarching narrative throughout the Bible that uses marriage terminology to describe the relationship between God and creation--that is, that God offers perfect rest in exchange for perfect devotion. I also don't use principled absolutism in ethics, but rather casuistry and contextual ethics. I don't understand "thou shalt not bear false witness" to mean never, ever, ever lie. It's perfectly acceptable to lie to the Nazi about the Jews you're hiding. Rather, biblical commandments are contextual to the audience and the paradigmatic case implicit in the context. In the specific case of "thou shalt not murder," the paradigmatic involves violence brought against innocents--not violence against some real injustice. Even anarchistic Objectivists recognize this distinction between initiated and reactive/defensive violence. Edited by Katsuko, Jul 30 2012, 10:17 AM.
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Kammy	Jul 30 2012, 10:18 AM Post #18
You won't get much closer, 'till you sacrifice it all. Posts: 1,596 Group: S Rank Hero Member #9,544 Joined: December 10, 2008 Game Currently Playing: Playstation AllStars: Battle Royale	I'm an atheist. Simply because of a lack of evidence of a deity. I also don't like how it dictates peoples' lives and causes wars and disagreements, such as 9/11.
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Devy The Mutt	Jul 30 2012, 10:22 AM Post #19
'Ello, lad! Posts: 2,631 Group: E Rank Legend Member #12,660 Joined: December 29, 2011 Gender: Male Country: United States of America Steam ID: mxnneurosis Game Currently Playing: Oddworld: Abe's Oddysey	Shion Sonozaki Jul 30 2012, 10:18 AM I'm an atheist. Simply because of a lack of evidence of a deity. I also don't like how it dictates peoples' lives and causes wars and disagreements, such as 9/11. Thank you. I hate when people do that. I just tell them "it's not religion's fault. It's the believers' fault."
	*"The life I live will never be the same without you here..."*


Brick Mage	Jul 30 2012, 10:40 AM Post #20
I'll be there every step of the way... Posts: 4,813 Group: C Rank Legend Member #1,680 Joined: July 13, 2007	Getting heated in here. Anyway, I suppose I'm agnostic, or maybe more like agnostic atheist. Wikipedia Agnostic atheism, also called atheistic agnosticism, is a philosophical position that encompasses both atheism and agnosticism. Agnostic atheists are atheistic because they do not hold a belief in the existence of any deity and agnostic because they claim that the existence of a deity is either unknowable in principle or currently unknown in fact. So I'm basically of the opinion that it's impossible in our current form of being and/or with our current facts to know whether or not a "higher power" or "God" or "spirit realm" or what-have-you truly exists. It may or may not, and claiming one or the other as fact, in my opinion, is quite foolish. Therefore, I don't follow the dogma of any religion, and based on my reason, I think even if a religion were to be true, the justice of the consequences of non-belief would be nullified on the grounds that one simply cannot have the proper amount of information to determine whether or not to believe. As for the whole concept of faith, I don't think "spiritual convictions" (which are most likely based on the morality one was brought up to follow) are enough to prompt one into belief on matters as important as your religion and the overall worth and fate of your consciousness and memories. Another note: As for the morality of those (or me, anyway) who don't believe in a God figure or higher power, one must realize that all humans, including oneself, are equally human--and therefore, equally flawed and equally sensitive to the actions of others. By understanding certain parts of oneself, one can understand those parts of other people. Do you want to be brutally murdered? I doubt it, so neither does Billybob down the street. Why don't you do it anyway? Because Billybob, no matter how crappy of a guy he is, is just as human as you are, and therefore his life is just as valuable. Wikipedia The Golden Rule or ethic of reciprocity is a maxim, ethical code, or morality that essentially states either of the following: (Positive form): One should treat others as one would like others to treat oneself. (Negative/prohibitive form, also called the Silver Rule): One should not treat others in ways that one would not like to be treated. Besides, it's not like when you surrender religious belief you stop having positive feelings towards people. I just love people, man. But I know this isn't about morality, I just thought this would help make my whole perspective add up. Anywho... Luka Megurine Me, personally, I'm a pantheist/ Einsteinian religion. I like to think that, as Carl Sagan brilliantly said, "The cosmos is also within us; we're made of star stuff. We are a way for the cosmos to know itself." We give, with our consciousness, life and self-awareness to the universe, and the universe gave to us the matter and laws of nature for such consciousness to arise within it. In other words, we are in the universe, and the universe is in us. I really, really love this perspective. I don't think it disagrees with my perspective, either--in an abstract way, I believe the same. Edited by Brick Mage, Jul 30 2012, 10:53 AM.



Tammy	Jul 30 2012, 12:20 PM Post #21
Lava Reef Act 1 Posts: 2,605 Group: E Rank Legend Member #10,015 Joined: May 29, 2009	I put agnostic, but really I don't classify myself under any sort of religious or nonreligious group. I go by what I like to think and leave it at that. Personally, I was always kinda keen on the idea of reincarnation, but again, that's just what I like to think.



SuperShadowgal	Jul 30 2012, 03:38 PM Post #22
The Female Ultimate Life Form! Posts: 3,112 Group: E Rank Legend Member #59 Joined: April 29, 2006	I don't really classify myself either, I sort of just go with whatever. Perhaps athiest or agnostic. (I chose other.) I do not believe there is a god, but I will not rule out a small chance/possibility there may be a "higher being" or "god" out there. It's just that there is really no evidence thus far for me to believe there is one. If there was in fact a god or higher being, I think he has probably long moved on and I don't see why we should really care then. What we should care about is the betterment of our society, not whether we appeased a god, or did enough good deeds that we enter heaven or whatever. Sure, the idea of a lovely spiritual realm or paradise is probably what a lot of people would want when they die, but paradise in an afterlife shouldn't just be an end goal, it should be strived for in this living realm as well I think. I would also like if we didn't have such issues with other religions. In my eyes, if religion and a god is in fact actual, I don't think any one religion is right. I feel it could be very well possible that the god people worship is essentially just one in the same, and people just interpret things differently and give their own spins on it, allowing better sense of belonging or familiarity -- a way to better understand the material presented. I prefer to look at religion more from an outside perspective. My best friend is a Christian, who started to go to a bible study and invited me (we were just in middle school/ a little younger I believe). I went and would sing the songs, tried prayer, and all that stuff, but I realized a few years down the line that I wasn't into the bible study because I loved god, Jesus, and whatever, I loved it because of the stories and concepts. I enjoy learning about it, but I wouldn't devote myself to any one religion and its practice. I like to understand and pick at things I like or find extremely interesting. History channel used to be my best friend for this (until it turned into the reality tv land it is, but that's off-topic...) Hope it makes some sense. ^^;
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Lord Bowie	Jul 30 2012, 03:52 PM Post #23
What is the difference between a duck? Posts: 4,799 Group: Former Monarchs Member #7,312 Joined: April 10, 2008 Playstation Network ID: Allbowdown Xbox Live Gamertag: allbowdown	I look at myself as a bit of an Agnostic (not the same as Atheism like lots of people like to tell me) Universalist. I don't practice any religion but I do share some values from different ideals. I also don't view religion as a bad thing.. having faith is a necessity to many and it's good to have a unifying belief that people can be under, because honestly the idea of death being the absolute end is a bit of a bummer to imagine.. part of me sort of agrees with the idea of recycling (reincarnation) but I also have considered the Native American idea of an afterlife called Nirvana where you are dead but you still exist almost like you become one with everything.. it's almost like a purgatory I'd suppose since you're everywhere and nowhere and feeling but not feeling, it's an unimaginable state of existence.. it's not glamorous like heaven or anything like that but it seems like it could be as possible as anything. I am always bothered by the extremes of religions, on the surface there are a lot of similarities between the vast majority of them but people get into fights and full fledged wars in the name of plenty of religions that explicitly seem to frown on that type of behavior. It's one thing to defend beliefs and it's another to just outright kill people because of a difference of faith, and that has always bothered me very deeply. So I guess I believe in and disagree with quite a few religions all at once, I've put myself in a little independent box. xD I ultimately believe in facts and science, and sprinkle in some faith where it's desirable to explain that which has yet to be explained I suppose, there's no reason why it can't all co-exist.
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KogaHarine	Jul 30 2012, 05:54 PM Post #24
The Black Swordsman Posts: 3,253 Group: E Rank Legend Member #7,594 Joined: April 19, 2008 Gender: Male Playstation Network ID: Goldth 3DS Friend Code: 047386746636 Nintendo ID: KogaHarine Game Currently Playing: Fantasy Life	Okay I'm just gonna post this cause it needs clarifying. @Squall: America has half of the remaining small pox virus. Russia has the other half. They keep it just in case there is ever another outbreak so that they can quickly and effectively create a vaccine. @Bowie: Nirvana is the Buddhist belief that when one has finished being reincarnated and has achieved total enlightenment, they become One with the universe. As for myself I guess I classify myself as Pantheist. I used to be Christian however after moving away from my family I've moved away from that.



Lord Bowie	Jul 30 2012, 08:07 PM Post #25
What is the difference between a duck? Posts: 4,799 Group: Former Monarchs Member #7,312 Joined: April 10, 2008 Playstation Network ID: Allbowdown Xbox Live Gamertag: allbowdown	@Mao - I've heard of Native Americans who also sort of had that "Nirvana" type of after-existence or something like it. So I don't know if it has always been a shared thing (even if they were unaware of each other) or whatever but you are right on that one.
	Saff Profile // Kam Profile // Sadistic Profile Stop by my art thread ----------------------------------------------- SUPER DA PAGE WARNING: Above Post May Contain Sarcastic/Harsh/Stupid/Offensive/Idiotic/Blasphemous Content. Deal With It. ______________ What's the difference between a champion and a challenger.. a challenger is trying to become, a champion became.


Devy The Mutt	Jul 30 2012, 08:16 PM Post #26
'Ello, lad! Posts: 2,631 Group: E Rank Legend Member #12,660 Joined: December 29, 2011 Gender: Male Country: United States of America Steam ID: mxnneurosis Game Currently Playing: Oddworld: Abe's Oddysey	Mao ★ Jul 30 2012, 05:54 PM @Squall: America has half of the remaining small pox virus. Russia has the other half. They keep it just in case there is ever another outbreak so that they can quickly and effectively create a vaccine. The more I know, but I still believe that they would possibly use it for warfare. We both can be considered as war-hungry countries. But yeah, true... :/
	*"The life I live will never be the same without you here..."*


Crooked Axle	Jul 30 2012, 08:41 PM Post #27
I seem to be all out of fucks Posts: 1,180 Group: A Rank Hero Member #11,124 Joined: June 9, 2010 Gender: Undisclosed Game Currently Playing: Final Fantasy XIV: A Realm Reborn	I'm an atheist. :I Also this:



Katsuko	Jul 31 2012, 06:58 AM Post #28
Sandopolis Act 1 Posts: 1,687 Group: S Rank Hero Member #1,933 Joined: August 14, 2007 Gender: Male	Jayce, the Defender of Tomorrow Jul 30 2012, 08:41 PM I simultaneously agree and disagree with this sentiment by this principle: Civility is an important social institution that facilitates honest, open, and productive discussion between people who disagree. Part of courteous respect is respect for belief. Marginalizing without discourse a set of ideas as "tyrannical brainwashing" or "Hell-bound" is neither civil nor reasonable. Edited by Katsuko, Jul 31 2012, 01:59 PM.
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JayHawk	Jul 31 2012, 11:01 AM Post #29
Character Select Posts: 9 Group: E Rank Adventurer Member #13,174 Joined: July 31, 2012 Playstation Network ID: IAmACrip	My grandma is a Jehovas Witness, so I study under her. But to be completely honest, I just don't feel it. I could never bring myself to tell her that though, love her too much.
	It's cool to act cool


HollyYoshi	Aug 2 2012, 04:13 PM Post #30
I object to your claims Posts: 15,025 Group: =SB= Queens Member #9,640 Joined: January 9, 2009 Gender: Female Country: United States of America 3DS Friend Code: 1891-1489-0768 Nintendo ID: Agent_Blaire Game Currently Playing: Yoshi's Island	I'm not going to get into discussion much, if at all, and just mention that I'm Catholic.



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