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Possible Last Sign Of Music Apocalypse?; I really hope it doesn't get worse...
Topic Started: Jan 23 2012, 01:57 PM (1,599 Views)
RektangleSquared
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T6j4f8cHBIM&feature=context&context=G2c11a5fFOAAAAAAAAAA
This is pretty much all that needs to be said. Everything in the music world is turning to shit...
Opinions?
Currently voicing Chris for SegaBridged's upcoming Sonic X Abridged series. Super stoked. Lots of talent in this group.
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Lady BlizShadow
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I still can't use this.

A ton of mainstream music is pretty shit, and indeed I don't like Nicki's music, but the former has always been the case, not for music but for art and entertainment in general. The reason older decades seem better musically is because the hits they play from back then are simply the lucky ones that stood the test of time, not necessarily because they were the only songs people listened to. For every comparative Michael Jackson there's about 100 Alien Ant Farms. *shrugs*
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RektangleSquared
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I agree with you there... But I'm just saying. I've never heard a song worse than this garbage... And that's in comparison to "Chacerone Maccarone" or whatever.
Currently voicing Chris for SegaBridged's upcoming Sonic X Abridged series. Super stoked. Lots of talent in this group.
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Lady BlizShadow
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I still can't use this.

If you've honestly never heard worse than Nicki Minaj, you need to listen to more music. =P Hell, even within the Young Money label to which she's signed there's worse artists.
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HollyYoshiPosted Image
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You should have been at the party I went to before Christmas. Every single song there - with a single exception - made pretty much every Nicki Minaj song I've heard sound totally awesome. Or close to it. Seriously, that was bad music. I'd describe it as akin to having two drills placed in your ears and having them slowly drill into your skull.
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Breakfast Princess
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Whoa whoa whoa whoa. Hold the phone, patron. Get off Nicki Lewinski's jock. She's a super-talented female rapper.

True, I used to think she was pointlessly talentless, too. But that was before she sorta broke off and became her own thing.

There are plenty of people out there who are famous for no reason and she is NOT one of them.

First of all, rapping has, for quite awhile now, been widely acknowleded as an art form and a veritable genre of music. And Nicki, who is the Modern Rapping Queen of timing, flow, and rhyme, certainly deserves the title.

Just because you don't like her music, doesnt mean it's "shit".

For that matter, are you POSITIVE that it's her music you dont like? Perhaps it's the genre as a whole, or her image, or her message that you arent fond of?

Im all for "personal preference and opinion" and stuff, but not when you just launch into how something perfectly entertaining is "shit".

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Lady BlizShadow
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I still can't use this.

Nicki's style nearly comes wholesale from the Lil Wayne School of thought and is in general a problem I have with the majority of mainstream rapping as a whole today.

For one, the lyrical set up is mindnumbingly simple because everyone uses the same damn rhyming scheme for their verses: AAAA or ABAB. Lines rarely flow into one another either. There's little variation, little surprise, and little to break the rapping from its most basic of confines to something more narrative-like or conversational the way Eminem did in his heyday. An example line from his song "Who Knew?" (which is a great song, btw) to demonstrate:

"I'll burn your f***in' house down, circle around, then hit the hydrant so you can't put your burning furniture out"

Even within one single line, Eminem is rhyming multiple consonants ('ur' and 'ow') in different words and keeping with a very tight flow, but he doesn't have to sacrifice the line's function as an everyday, conversational sentence to do it. It's friggin' awesome, but Young Money rappers don't do this often if at all, either because they're content with what they're doing or because they're just shit at it.

Going from there, lyrical writing from rappers today is also an absolute mess. Every song is treated like a freestyle piece: Random sentences that may or may not have to do with an overall theme because their point is not to express a theme, but to be punctuated by lame-arse punch lines. These punch lines- usually separated by a pause like some hash tag on Twitter- generally aren't as witty or relevant as their inherent emphasis usually suggest. An example line from Nicki herself in one of Drake's songs:

"I'm a star- Sheriff badge!"

What the hell does a Sheriff badge have to do with anything in the song or the line other than adding unnecessary visual emphasis to a common word and forcing a rhyme? It's stupid as hell, everyone does it, and yet for some strange reason, they're treated as lyrical geniuses for doing it. I hate it with all my heart and soul.

Also, just because one like Nicki Minaj's music doesn't make it good, (I'd also never call her the Queen of Rapping, even with the distinction of her being the "Modern" one. There's much better female rappers that she has yet to ascribe to, popularity notwithstanding). Pointing out that someone's opinion is an opinion is redundant.

Edit: Also, Nicki's growls and cartoony changes in voice tone got old really, really fast. I wish she'd stop doing that shit.
Edited by BlizShadow, Jan 23 2012, 03:12 PM.
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RektangleSquared
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I'm an outspoken anti-rap kinda guy. I mean seriously, I'm all for poetry, just not the background computer beeps. Though, I do enjoy Rock/Rap though.
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Wallace
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I have to agree with Kitkat. Music, like all art forms, is a subjective experience. You can't just say that any music sucks. You can say you don't like it, but just because you don't like it doesn't mean it sucks. In my opinion, music should not be enjoyed as a genre-defined experience in which only certain genres are good, or in structure-defined experiences in which if the way a song is structured musically or lyrically is absolutely vital in determining if it's good or not. I don't listen to genres of music. I don't listen to structure of music. I listen to music, and I listen to music I like.

That said, I... honestly don't like this song. Very few songs can put me off enough in the first minute to not want to listen to the rest. I really liked the only other Nicki Minaj song I've heard, Superbass, though. But that's neither here nor there.

This topic seems to only serve the purpose of flaming a particular genre of music, though. I'm not sure what the actual point of it is...

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BlizShadow
Jan 23 2012, 03:05 PM
Nicki's style nearly comes wholesale from the Lil Wayne School of thought and is in general a problem I have with the majority of mainstream rapping as a whole today.

For one, the lyrical set up is mindnumbingly simple because everyone uses the same damn rhyming scheme for their verses: AAAA or ABAB. Lines rarely flow into one another either. There's little variation, little surprise, and little to break the rapping from its most basic of confines to something more narrative-like or conversational the way Eminem did in his heyday. An example line from his song "Who Knew?" (which is a great song, btw) to demonstrate:

"I'll burn your f***in' house down, circle around, then hit the hydrant so you can't put your burning furniture out"

Even within one single line, Eminem is rhyming multiple consonants ('ur' and 'ow') in different words and keeping with a very tight flow, but he doesn't have to sacrifice the line's function as an everyday, conversational sentence to do it. It's friggin' awesome, but Young Money rappers don't do this often if at all, either because they're content with what they're doing or because they're just shit at it.

Going from there, lyrical writing from rappers today is also an absolute mess. Every song is treated like a freestyle piece: Random sentences that may or may not have to do with an overall theme because their point is not to express a theme, but to be punctuated by lame-arse punch lines. These punch lines- usually separated by a pause like some hash tag on Twitter- generally aren't as witty or relevant as their inherent emphasis usually suggest. An example line from Nicki herself in one of Drake's songs:

"I'm a star- Sheriff badge!"

What the hell does a Sheriff badge have to do with anything in the song or the line other than adding unnecessary visual emphasis to a common word and forcing a rhyme? It's stupid as hell, everyone does it, and yet for some strange reason, they're treated as lyrical geniuses for doing it. I hate it with all my heart and soul.

Also, just because one like Nicki Minaj's music doesn't make it good, (I'd also never call her the Queen of Rapping, even with the distinction of her being the "Modern" one. There's much better female rappers that she has yet to ascribe to, popularity notwithstanding). Pointing out that someone's opinion is an opinion is redundant.

Edit: Also, Nicki's growls and cartoony changes in voice tone got old really, really fast. I wish she'd stop doing that shit.
Yeah, those are a couple of issues I have with rap as well. :\ Can't stand the stuff. Rap and Hip Hop, my two least favorite genres of music. Though there are a few exceptions, but they're so, well, few.=/
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Lady BlizShadow
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I still can't use this.

For pete's sake:

Saying "this music sucks" is an inherently opinionated statement because it expresses the tastes of the speaker, not a universal truth, thus it is apt for describing art like music. To say otherwise is just being pedantic and sensitive; It's unnecessary for anyone to be forced into having to qualify their negative opinion as a negative opinion by saying, "I don't like..." before they proceed to disagree with you. Honestly, did we never learn to tell the difference between facts and opinions without having it spelled out so blatantly?

@ Blaire: That was a tirade against bad rap, not rap music as a whole. =P Honestly, I think rap is an easy target for people, and I especially sigh when it's compared unfavorably to rock as if mainstream rock hasn't gotten terrible either. xP
Edited by BlizShadow, Jan 23 2012, 03:54 PM.
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Breakfast Princess
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Alright, i'll admit. That particular song of hers isnt the best. But you cant judge an artist just by one piece of work.

Look at "Super Bass" and "Roman's Revenge". Both are prime examples of excellent modern hiphop-rap in that they represent every good apect of it.

Who cares/is that concerned about flawed rhyming or ABAB rhyming pattern rubbish? That's why it's RAP, notPOETRY, because, at least nowadays, the two are completely separate.

Let's not forget, Nicki Minaj isnt just an artist, she's an entertainer. And the point of an entertainer is to entertain. There are different key aspects for every form of entertainment-- and they vary even further from entertainer to entertainer.

An aspect of Nicki's form of entertainment is COMEDY. Her lyrics are supposed to be funny, amusing, in-your-face, blunt, shocking, and memorable. And she certainly succeeds.

I mean, c'mon. Among those who have heard the song, "Roman's Revenge", who honestly doesn't remember the funny line:

"Rah, rah, like a dungeon dragon" (a line that even the great Eminem borrowed)?

Heck, I was reciting that line before I even knew what song it was from. Entertaining, memorable. Exhibit A.

The reason Nicki Minaj raps "random" words, phrases or lines is because that's her STYLE, which she is entitled to. And it's a unique style. She may not have invented it, per say, but she certainly innovated it and brought it back to mainstream, which is certainly worth something because it's actually good.

It's also called Word Association, Bliz, something even famous poets and authors are known for.

A few rappers do this (the most practiced one being Nicki), but because their lyrics are unrefined, bold, shocking, tongue-in-cheek, etc.. They are suddenly set apart from the refined intellectuals who are doing the Same. Exact. Thing... Only with more syllables, bigger words, and a gentler overall sound.

Anyways, Nicki's word association style is exactly what it's supposed to be: entertaining, amusing, shocking and memorable. Simple as that.

Also, on a smaller scale (as in, within each individual song), she uses this unique style to get her point across.

Examples:

-"The f*** I look like getting back to a has-been? Yeah I said it-- has-beeen. Hang it up, flat screen. Plasma. Hey Nicki, hey Nicki, asthma.."

-"I am a movie, camera block"

-"I got em scared, shook, panickin, overseas, church, Vatican, you better stand, still, mannequin" (a really good line)

-"About violent as hair on eyelids, eyelash" (omg, and that line was Eminem's! Go figure.)

Btw-- all those lines were from "Roman's Revenge", a collaboration of Nicki Minaj and Eminem's excellent rapping talents; also one of Nicki's best songs.

And about Nicki's grunts (and "growls") and "cartoon voice changes", i've got 14 words for you: Amusing, memorable lyrics rapped in her own personal style as a form of entertainment.



Edited by Breakfast Princess, Jan 23 2012, 04:34 PM.
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Lady BlizShadow
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I still can't use this.

Ayane
Jan 23 2012, 04:31 PM
Who cares/is that concerned about flawed rhyming or ABAB rhyming pattern rubbish? That's why it's RAP, notPOETRY, because, at least nowadays, the two are completely separate.

Rap music consists of songs. Songs consist of lyrics. If your lyrical structure is bad, a big component of your song's already bad. That's comparable to saying that because films are visual mediums, they shouldn't concern themselves with writing or music.

Let's not forget, Nicki Minaj isnt just an artist, she's an entertainer. And the point of an entertainer is to entertain. There are different key aspects for every form of entertainment-- and they vary even further from entertainer to entertainer.

She doesn't entertain me.

An aspect of Nicki's form of entertainment is COMEDY. Her lyrics are supposed to be funny, amusing, in-your-face, blunt, shocking, and memorable. And she certainly succeeds.

Her lyrics don't make me laugh.

I mean, c'mon. Among those who have heard the song, "Roman's Revenge", who honestly doesn't remember the funny line:

"Rah, rah, like a dungeon dragon" (a line that even the great Eminem borrowed)?

Heck, I was reciting that line before I even knew what song it was from. Entertaining, memorable. Exhibit A.

I actually don't like Roman's Revenge either. That line has no impact. It's once again a silly, empty simile- only a step up from the hash-tag punchlines I mentioned earlier because it uses the word "like" to connect the two parts of the sentence into something more grammatically coherent. Also, Eminem borrowed the line because he's on the song itself and that line is in the chorus.

The reason Nicki Minaj raps "random" words, phrases or lines is because that's her STYLE, which she is entitled to. And it's a unique style. She may not have invented it, per say, but she certainly innovated it and brought it back to mainstream, which is certainly worth something because it's actually good.

It's also called Word Association, Bliz, something even famous poets and authors are known for.

A few rappers do this (the most practiced one being Nicki), but because their lyrics are unrefined, bold, shocking, tongue-in-cheek, etc.. They are suddenly set apart from the refined intellectuals who are doing the Same. Exact. Thing... Only with more syllables, bigger words, and a gentler overall sound.

I'm also entitled to say that her style sucks, and no amount of you pointing this out to me or gussying it up in hyperbole like "amazing" "shocking" and "bold" is going to make me be sympathetic to her and suddenly like her. And it's not unique to her either nor did she "innovate it;" it's a staple of Young Money artists and it's boring and overused.

I also don't care what it's specifically called and am not sure why you're justifying her usage of it on the basis of other people using it, as if the usage of a particular technique in a number of songs validates the quality of all of those particular songs. Not every piece of artwork is equal.


Anyways, Nicki's word association style is exactly what it's supposed to be: entertaining, amusing, shocking and memorable. Simple as that.

Also, on a smaller scale (as in, within each individual song), she uses this unique style to get her point across.

Examples:

-"The f*** I look like getting back to a has-been? Yeah I said it-- has-beeen. Hang it up, flat screen. Plasma. Hey Nicki, hey Nicki, asthma.."

-"I am a movie, camera block"

-"I got em scared, shook, panickin, overseas, church, Vatican, you better stand, still, mannequin" (a really good line)

-"About violent as hair on eyelids, eyelash" (omg, and that line was Eminem's! Go figure.)

Btw-- all those lines were from "Roman's Revenge", a collaboration of Nicki Minaj and Eminem's excellent rapping talents; also one of Nicki's best songs.

All of those lines suck.

And about Nicki's grunts (and "growls") and "cartoon voice changes", i've got 14 words for you: Amusing, memorable lyrics rapped in her own personal style as a form of entertainment.

Again, hyperbole is not going to get you anywhere. It as if you're getting paid by her.
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@ Blaire: That was a tirade against bad rap, not rap music as a whole. =P Honestly, I think rap is an easy target for people, and I especially sigh when it's compared unfavorably to rock as if mainstream rock hasn't gotten terrible either. xP


Well Bliz, the thing is, I personally haven't heard much rap that I would consider 'good'. xD Again, there are exceptions, but more often than not, I want to change the song ten seconds into the singing - because that's what really turns rap off for me.


And rock is probably my second favorite genre of music. D: Though, how much of the rock I like is 'mainstream'....I couldn't guess. :P
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Breakfast Princess
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No, i'm not getting paid by her, however, I do enjoy her music, so I laud it. Ahhhbv-iously if I like it I have good things to say about it. Since when are "amazing" and "bold" hyperboles? Would you rather me say: "I like her good music cus its good, good, and good?"

You really using "this sucks, that sucks" to counter my points? Smh...

Just because you aren't entertained by her, doesnt mean she's not an entertainer. Or a bad one. It means you cant or dont want to appreciate her talent. And thats cool. But that doesnt mean she sucks. Just cause you dont find her lines funny, she's still producing albums, she's still on the air, she's still making a mil. And if all it takes is sucking to be superfamous and super-rich, then ...... Well. Hm. I know a lot of people who are gonna be EXTRA famous.

I dont like Angelina Jolie, I think she sucks, but she's still a dynamic, entertaining actress. I dont like Kevin Hart, I think he sucks, but he's still a funny, entertaining comedian.
You dont like Nicki Minaj, you think she sucks, but she's still a bold, entertaining rapper. (Excuse my hyperboles. I realize "dynamic" "funny" and "bold" may be a bit of an exaggeration.)
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