The Fate of the Artistic Requests Forum

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The Fate of the Artistic Requests Forum; Please read
Tweet Topic Started: Jul 18 2010, 11:49 AM (504 Views)
Lady BlizShadow	Jul 18 2010, 11:49 AM Post #1
I still can't use this. Posts: 6,546 Group: Former Monarchs Member #6,722 Joined: March 16, 2008	I brought this up with staff upon which Talancir suggested going public with it. So here's the gist of the issue-- The Artistic Request section seems to be decaying; It's got issues that are practically causing one another, and I'm unsure whether our community has the resolve the section needs to really get it going. One problem is the fact that a lot of requests go unfulfilled. There's tons of topics offering plenty of work, but they're pretty much ignored. This may be due to a few reasons: Some requests may be worded poorly, or people respond merely to state that they can't do it, or that they will do it despite the fact that they forget down the line. So many of the topics go unanswered. So staff tossed around a potential solution: Instead of merely having people request things in topics, why don't we rule that all requests be done in the shops instead? The reasoning: We have plenty of shops that specialize in the few areas that members request the most, like drawing, spriting, and banner making. Also, putting the requests in the shops would better ensure that they get attention from someone, that the requests conform to a standard that allows the shop keeper to make the request into an actual product, and that requests are ultimately done more efficiently and everyone has a better experience. But there's a problem with that too: The shops seem abandoned. Most of these shops actually have unfulfilled requests right in them. So there would be little point in prohibiting topics. It just seems like not enough people are interested in doing anything. And that's the real issue: Is the community capable of handling requests in the first place as far as having the maturity and work ethic needed to do so? Speaking as someone whose done them before herself, requests can get overwhelming to the point that you simply lose all of your drive, and it gets worse with 30,000 people on a waiting list. Requests are a big job with little compensation, and I'm not sure it would be fair to both shopkeepers or the people requesting to try and dump that responsibility on anybody. So ultimately, I think requests in general would be better served on sites that are more specifically devoted to producing and showcasing artwork such as DeviantART. If we voted the section away, you would still be allowed to make requests in a person's art topic to a degree, but with the disclaimer attached that no one is obligated to actually fulfill requests anymore. But what do you think? Do you think the issues outlined above are capable of being worked out or not? Ultimately, do you want the Artistic Request section to stay or do you want it to go? Detailed responses would be appreciated.
	Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum


Neo Metallix	Jul 18 2010, 11:53 AM Post #2
~Doomsday Overlord~ Posts: 15,568 Group: =SB= Emperor Member #1 Joined: April 8, 2006 Gender: Male Country: United States of America Playstation Network ID: Doc_Of_D Game Currently Playing: Tales of Xillia	I think simply moving it to the main forum as opposed to a sub-forum would do wonders. Look at how the fan character shrine flourished after I moved it out of the Museum of Arts.
	Puncture the Porcupine, my fancharacter!


Lady BlizShadow	Jul 18 2010, 12:23 PM Post #3
I still can't use this. Posts: 6,546 Group: Former Monarchs Member #6,722 Joined: March 16, 2008	The Fan Character section flourished in regards to how many topics were made, but that's not necessarily the issue here. The Artistic Request section has some pretty decent activity. It's whether or not the community is actually willing to take the initiative and do the work of fulfilling all of the requests people make. I don't think that'll be solved with simply moving the section because it's not strictly a matter of awareness.
	Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum


SuperShadowgal	Jul 18 2010, 01:13 PM Post #4
The Female Ultimate Life Form! Posts: 3,112 Group: E Rank Legend Member #59 Joined: April 29, 2006	I think that sounds fine enough. I've browsed the AR section quite a few times, only to find a lot of requests go unanswered. Maybe what should happen is that there could be some stickied general shop threads. These stickied threads would cover what forms of art we have available here -- sprite/pixel art, writing, drawing etc (general shops might need better categorization)... In these threads, people can request things they want to the general forum. That way, members can browse the stickied thread and posts don't get swept away by a hundred other requests. Aside from that, keep shops open that members have made. (Maybe 4 topics? Drawing, Sprite/Pixel Art (or possibly merge this into drawing), Writing, Avatars/Signatures/Banners) Maybe what should happen is some moderation (oh heaven forbid I'm requesting this?) where shops must be maintained or they will be deleted? I'm not saying anything crazy like meet some quota every week or that said shop has to have requests every day/week completed. I'm saying more like if it's been months and months or you haven't done a single request for someone -- because somehow your computer has had another major virus for the 4th time that week, maybe it should be locked/deleted until further notice? Or maybe if they aren't giving artwork examples? I dunno. Edited by SuperShadowgal, Jul 18 2010, 01:18 PM.
	The navigation (links): Sonic FCs /\|\ Art /\|\ Hug? /\|\ Awesome /\|\ Free Cake /\|\ Internets /\|\ My Adoptables Latest blog entry: SSG Plays Pokemon White Version 2! Part 3! (11/3/12) =Outdated Help the dragons grow big and stwong. There used to be music here ~*


HollyYoshi	Jul 18 2010, 01:56 PM Post #5
I object to your claims Posts: 15,025 Group: =SB= Queens Member #9,640 Joined: January 9, 2009 Gender: Female Country: United States of America 3DS Friend Code: 1891-1489-0768 Nintendo ID: Agent_Blaire Game Currently Playing: Yoshi's Island	Personally, I kinda like the idea of SSG's suggestion; making stickied topics for certain art forms. There is a problem, however. What would we do if, say the Banner thread had far too many requests at once to handle? As Bliz said, not enough people are interested in actually fulfilling requests. We'd need to think of a way to keep the topics from having too many requests at one time. Maybe we could have a limit as to how many members can actually request stuff at one time? And the amount of stuff they can actually request. I know it's restricting, but I believe it would make things a bit more bearable for the people taking the requests. Edited by HollyYoshi, Jul 18 2010, 02:01 PM.



Lord Tora Unlimited Crusader	Jul 18 2010, 07:40 PM Post #6
【The Knight of Tigers 】 Posts: 5,462 Group: Former Monarchs Member #6,733 Joined: March 17, 2008 Gender: Male Country: Australia 3DS Friend Code: 0404-6433-6113 Steam ID: crusaderandtimothy	I dunno about the whole 'artists aren't obligated to finish requests' thing. Why not keep a limit of three requests at a time? That way, it stops artists from putting too much work on themselves, and if for some reason they decide to abandon the project, they're not leaving people with unfinished requests sitting around scratching their heads going "Well, that was pointless then, wasn't it?" shrug I dunno, I ain't an artist, so... As Kyon would put it, "Just do what you want." ^_^;;
	Check out my tumblr, Aggravated Anime-Adoring Australian, where I post all sorts of dumb screencaps and MS Paint edits and generally bitch and moan about stupid otaku shit. ~One third of =SB='s Legendary Australian Trio. The man who surpassed anime fandom and became the Patron Saint of GAR and Moe.~


Lady BlizShadow	Jul 18 2010, 08:23 PM Post #7
I still can't use this. Posts: 6,546 Group: Former Monarchs Member #6,722 Joined: March 16, 2008	Some shops only got two or three requests and were still abandoned, TUC. :P But, if we're insistent on giving the shop idea a go, then here's how I propose we do it: As SSG said, we can have a few stickied shop threads, but these threads would have a list of multiple shopkeepers who wanted to volunteer to do requests of that particular art style, which would allow us to spread the workload really thin. Requests would also be limited too, perhaps five at a time, and once the queue list was full, effort would be made sure that no more requests would be made, which could range from editing the topic title or even locking it altogether until all requests are finished. Once those requests are done and posted, the queue is opened again and we repeat. If and only if this takes off and the shopkeepers remain up to date and responsible, I can see us allowing them to branch out and have their own specific shops.
	Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum


HollyYoshi	Jul 18 2010, 08:35 PM Post #8
I object to your claims Posts: 15,025 Group: =SB= Queens Member #9,640 Joined: January 9, 2009 Gender: Female Country: United States of America 3DS Friend Code: 1891-1489-0768 Nintendo ID: Agent_Blaire Game Currently Playing: Yoshi's Island	Ah yes, nod nod, now this could work well. I approve.



Katsuko	Jul 18 2010, 11:41 PM Post #9
Sandopolis Act 1 Posts: 1,687 Group: S Rank Hero Member #1,933 Joined: August 14, 2007 Gender: Male	The problem presented here is that artists are too lazy to complete all the requests. Nothing we can do bureaucratically or organizationally will fix that for all the reasons Bliz has covered. No matter what system we apply, artists will still be at the center of it, and they still won't want to do the extra work�and if you make that work mandatory or limited, they'll simply retire, as we see from the GFX army. But I have to ask, how much is it hurting things to have unfulfilled requests sitting around in a forum? Some of the requests do get finished, and to me, that's reason enough to keep it around. It doesn't create much clutter or distract from the rest of the forum, and the only people who get hurt by it are those who use it in the first place as a way to find willing artists. So why not let it continue to exist for those 1 in 5 cases where the work gets done?
	<3 All you need is love <3


Lord Tora Unlimited Crusader	Jul 19 2010, 12:06 AM Post #10
【The Knight of Tigers 】 Posts: 5,462 Group: Former Monarchs Member #6,733 Joined: March 17, 2008 Gender: Male Country: Australia 3DS Friend Code: 0404-6433-6113 Steam ID: crusaderandtimothy	Because '1 in 5' is an inefficient ratio, and the ignorant masses must be educated to realise this fact. And in doing so, we take one more step towards world domination! Joking (mostly) aside, it doesn't clutter the board so much as it just clutters itself with topics that end up being useless. With shops, at least requesters can go into a thread expecting that it will most likely be productive, and artists can go into their thread expecting to find something to do, or whatever it is they expect when they make shop threads. shrug Edited by Tora Unlimited Crusader, Jul 19 2010, 12:09 AM.
	Check out my tumblr, Aggravated Anime-Adoring Australian, where I post all sorts of dumb screencaps and MS Paint edits and generally bitch and moan about stupid otaku shit. ~One third of =SB='s Legendary Australian Trio. The man who surpassed anime fandom and became the Patron Saint of GAR and Moe.~


Katsuko	Jul 19 2010, 01:05 AM Post #11
Sandopolis Act 1 Posts: 1,687 Group: S Rank Hero Member #1,933 Joined: August 14, 2007 Gender: Male	Quote: Joking (mostly) aside, it doesn't clutter the board so much as it just clutters itself with topics that end up being useless. With shops, at least requesters can go into a thread expecting that it will most likely be productive, and artists can go into their thread expecting to find something to do, or whatever it is they expect when they make shop threads. shrug Why would the shop idea be any more productive than the current situation?
	<3 All you need is love <3


Lord Talancir D'Landior	Jul 19 2010, 04:52 AM Post #12
~ RP Knight ~ Posts: 2,394 Group: Former Monarchs Member #2,592 Joined: September 26, 2007 Gender: Male Game Currently Playing: All the games. All of it.	Yves Jul 19 2010, 01:05 AM Quote: Joking (mostly) aside, it doesn't clutter the board so much as it just clutters itself with topics that end up being useless. With shops, at least requesters can go into a thread expecting that it will most likely be productive, and artists can go into their thread expecting to find something to do, or whatever it is they expect when they make shop threads. shrug Why would the shop idea be any more productive than the current situation? productivity isn't the issue; efficiency is. Artists will be Artists, but artists won't necessarily be able to acquire patrons if the patrons can't find the right artist for the job. this is just a way of making the forum section more presentable, and in line with the rest of the forum. the current status of the forum is part of what drove the GFX Army from the place to begin with, from what I've heard.
	RP Aid: So, you want to be a storyteller? A must read for any Storyteller who wants to be better at his craft. RP Aid: Combat: A Comprehensive Guide to Beating Arse By the way, I'm on skype. Search for talancir. Millstone of Time Resources My Character Archive: http://sonicblast.org/topic/7265216 Please, feel free to enter and comment at will. I crave discussion Magick Formula Overview Concepts


Phoenix-Saturn	Jul 19 2010, 08:34 AM Post #13
i just wwant to be beautiful for this one month Posts: 7,528 Group: A Rank Legend Member #10,191 Joined: July 27, 2009	My problem with the request forum is that either the thing requested is beyond my talent or they want it too quickly. I don't think there's anything wrong with the forum itself, except for an unbalanced ratio of people requesting to people making art.
	i'm actually really sorry bout this unfashionably late as alwways I... Am... THE WEREHOG SUPPORTER! MUHAHAHAHA! Howl


Lady BlizShadow	Jul 19 2010, 08:53 AM Post #14
I still can't use this. Posts: 6,546 Group: Former Monarchs Member #6,722 Joined: March 16, 2008	I would think that any organization that prided itself on working to the best of its abilities wouldn't be happy at any part of their set-up running at 20% efficiency. It's overspecialization, it does indeed clutter the forum because it's adding work of dubious significance that's not getting addressed, and it's unnecessary, especially if that 20% of work could probably be handled elsewhere without its own entire department, (i.e. my prior suggestion of having members make personal requests either in members art topics or off-site; SB isn't the only place on the Internet that provides artwork after all). And there will always be an unbalanced ratio between supply and demand when it comes to artistry the moment you let your doors open, Phoenix. Everyone needs artwork of some sort and they always want it as fast as possible and done to the best of your ability; That's just the way the business works. Even when you're actually being compensated, it's still a consuming endeavor if you're working by yourself, which goes back to my thought that it's not fair to the artists here or the people requesting if we can't at least get half of the requests done here.
	Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum


Phoenix-Saturn	Jul 19 2010, 09:33 AM Post #15
i just wwant to be beautiful for this one month Posts: 7,528 Group: A Rank Legend Member #10,191 Joined: July 27, 2009	Well, the thing is, on places like dA, you have either the same problem as here, with artists forgetting or being overloaded, or the artist is Commision-only. Not to mention they have no intrest in getting to know you or having a friendly relationship past the business aspect of things.
	i'm actually really sorry bout this unfashionably late as alwways I... Am... THE WEREHOG SUPPORTER! MUHAHAHAHA! Howl


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