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- Act II: Sonic's Moonlit Realm
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- Interspecies Couples
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| Interspecies Couples; A morality discussion | |
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| Tweet Topic Started: Aug 24 2008, 10:25 AM (3,172 Views) | |
| Lady BlizShadow | Aug 24 2008, 10:25 AM Post #1 |
I still can't use this.
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A few notes before I begin as I already know most of you believe this won't have a favorable direction. It probably won't regardless of any warnings I put up, but there's no reason why I can't displace a little liability anyways:
Now, on with the show! *ahem* With a series as popular, laden with anime cliche's, and burdened with as many fangirls are their are fanboys as the Sonic series is, then fan coupling is an inevitability. It doesn't help that Sega and Archie have played to these guilty pleasures with various hints and partnerships, especially the latter since it goes to the extent of showing reciprocated kissing, marriage, and offspring. Coupling is as big a practice as tearing Sonic game mechanics to shreds, and like any culture there's bound to be war over certain subjects, but the one we'll focus on today here is the title of this little thread. There is an obvious stigma attached to a great deal of these couples because they promote interspecies relationships. In the games alone, only a comparatively few couples against the tens of others possible can even have the pleasure of including one species. The rest, including Knuckles x Rouge, Shadow x Rouge, Tails x Cream, Sonic x Elise, Shadow x Maria, etc. all include relationships comprised of two different animals which creates a predictable sense of disgust when they're compared to the realistic boundaries of morality and social acceptance. But the monkey wrench is: How can you determine any social or moral standings on such an issue as it pertains to the Sonic universe? First, the problem with denouncing these couples on this basis is that you essentially undermine the majority of the characters' intelligence and status as "people" rather than "animals". These relationships' lack of acceptance partly stems from the fact that animals are unable to give consent to any romantic motions. However, Sonic and co. have a state of personhood: They are capable of speech, they can write, they have ethic codes, and they understand technology and culture at the same level that you and I can. That renders them very possible to create mutual relationships with different species and people. Secondly, Sega have basically rendered these relationships in the universe as a non-issue simply because of Fang's presence. Ever since the story in the games was streamlined in all regions and the Japanese iteration became canon, Fang was by default officially made into a wolf/weasel hybrid. A wolf and weasel hybrid. These two species will never be able to produce offspring within the real world, obviously. In fact, there might be some predator and prey action involved. But when it comes to the Sonic universe, these animals are obviously close enough biologically to produce offspring in as innocent a manner as wolves and dogs are able to. And if Fang is what he is, aren't the possibilities limitless? Why can't a bat and an echidna get together, or a fox and a rabbit, or most controversially... ... why can't a hedgehog and a human get together? Not that either example of the latter type were even romantically charged in the first place, hence why I've even bothered with writing all of this out. To go off on a tangent, it was not until Sonic '06 came about that the fandom grew a considerably worse attitude about couples as a whole and began using these excuses far more often than what I've witnessed. Elise is mostly disliked for having the gall to like the guy who saved her life, and it's blown up for obvious reasons. People have automatically assumed that Elise's feelings were of a romantic nature, and although there's nothing wrong with that as a result of the revelations above, there's still a severe lack of evidence. From a more sensible viewpoint, she seems to confide in Sonic a lot because he's actually worth it. He saved her not only from certain doom but from the severe mental rut that came with being a princess dealing with Eggman's nonsense, being orphaned at an early age, and charged with not crying ever again lest she wanted to release Armageddon. That's a considerable burden for a 17 year old girl to bear, and Sonic's presence reforms her life and attitude as he does with nearly every other character he's come into contact with. Sonic himself is a mere catalyst for good things to happen to unfortunate people, which is what the whole point of the friendship was. As for the kiss she gave him... bollocks. The whole point of it was to revive Sonic from the dead and essentially return a favor, not to necessarily score a kiss from the hero. And besides, kissing has never been defined as a gesture that solely expresses romance. If it had been, the majority of us would effectively be considered disgusting advocates of inbreeding for kissing our parents good night. Now, that's my view on the entirety of the subject. These relationships in the Sonic world are, even from a moral grounding, harmless. They have only been vilified because we have failed to displace our belief and instead have made a mountain out of a molehill by injecting real life social stigmas into a fantasy video game series. Your thoughts? Edited by BlizShadow, Aug 24 2008, 10:34 AM.
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 Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum | |
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| HypedMellow | Aug 24 2008, 10:32 AM Post #2 |
Everything is P U R P L E.
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I don't mind interspecies couples. point blank. I'm an unphaseable kid. |
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Because none of us... ...Are as cruel as all of us. Skype: volvirvolver | |
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| Beta_Ray_Banhammer | Aug 24 2008, 11:03 AM Post #3 |
Whitebeard
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Yeah, but how many of us give our parents open-mouthed kisses?  The whole kiss was completely unneccesary. I actually don't mind interspecies, except Human/Non-Human. Hedgehog/Cat, Fox/Rabbit, Echidna/Bat, Hedgehog/Bat; hell, I'm even fine with Crocodile/Rabbit. But not Human/Anything that isn't human. That just crosses the line. Sonic Passion died for a reason. 
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| Lady BlizShadow | Aug 24 2008, 11:11 AM Post #4 |
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I still can't use this.
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For one thing, Sonic's mouth isn't even open nor is he even capable of returning the show of affection to make it look anything like Frenching. There isn't even any graphical clipping to make it look like one of them is gouging the other's mouth out. It's a regular kiss on the lips that is is another example of the whole "kiss of life" cliche' common in fantasies. Again, you're making a mountain out of a molehill. And Sonic Passion contained people who had over-the-top fetishes regarding fictional characters. That's hardly in the same ballpark as a fictional character befriending another fictional character. |
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Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum | |
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| The Grey Wyvern | Aug 24 2008, 11:16 AM Post #5 |
Hydrocity Act 1
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Not much to add here except my wholehearted agreement. I actually addressed this issue in an early draft of Ghost In The Mainframe, in which Gerald laughingly points out that if he tried accusing his granddaughter of bestiality over her love for Shadow, she'd have several rulings by the Supreme Court of the United States to cite as a counter-argument. |
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"If I were really the Planet's Ultimate Lifeform, I'd understand girls." -Shadow, Ghost In The Mainframe Relationship guru to our very own Cy-Fox... God help him. | |
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| Radar | Aug 24 2008, 11:19 AM Post #6 |
Good to be back
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How else could you play out the scene?! You complain too much. O_o And besides, it didn't mean anything relationship wise. Amy didn't even mind.  And how was it "Unnecessary"? Would you rather everyone just died?
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| Lady BlizShadow | Aug 24 2008, 11:23 AM Post #7 |
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I still can't use this.
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I actually had an idea for a similar story in which Shadow is accused of murder. But instead of the court taking his case seriously, the jury dictates that since he is technically an "animal" and not a "man" as indicated by the Constitution, he is merely classified as a danger to society and will have to have a lethal injection. It wasn't only supposed to be a narrated veil for this very argument, but a message about the Sonic fandom as a whole. Unfortunately, I forgot what that message was, hence why I haven't written it yet. XD |
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Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum | |
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| Beta_Ray_Banhammer | Aug 24 2008, 11:30 AM Post #8 |
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Whitebeard
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Watch it again. At 09:57 Elise's mouth is shown to be open as she goes for the kiss. Look at 09:58 - 09:10, her head appears to be bobbing. You were saying?
More like this: Check 01:32 - 02:09 Or this: Take a peak at 06:28 - 06:50. And even this: Look at 00:45 - 00:51. None of these instances involved kissing to harness the Chaos Emerald's power, in fact; all of them involved the Emeralds spinning around the user. That could've have easily substituted for a creepy interspecies kiss. Edited by Beta_Ray_Banhammer, Aug 24 2008, 11:49 AM.
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| Lady BlizShadow | Aug 24 2008, 11:51 AM Post #9 |
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I still can't use this.
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Again, I've seen it and even have the godawful game that the scene was in. Her mouth is barely even open there, at least not enough to initiate frenching. And what bobbing? There was no bobbing. Her head just moved a little bit to the side and wasn't even indicative of a sensual move on her part. Again, there's no show of romanticism. And further reiteration, you're making mountains out of molehills. Now, before further arguing of the scene resumes, I wanted to bring to light some blatant parallelism between Elise and Amy that I think further proves the point on where Sonic Team were trying to take the relationship. When Amy stops Silver and is bombarded with accusations, she tells him that "she doesn't care what happens to the world" so long as Sonic is alive and well and with her. This show of bravery and following sentiment highlights just how deeply Amy cares for Sonic's well-being, even if she doesn't show it regularly. Do you not find it uncanny that before Elise blows the flame out, that she admits the exact same thing to Sonic; that she doesn't care what happens to the world? It was an intentional coincidence to show just how grateful Elise was to for the impact the hedgehog had on her life. Amy and Elise share a platonic love of the hedgehog that is understandable and admirable; they just show it differently. |
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Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum | |
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| Beta_Ray_Banhammer | Aug 24 2008, 11:59 AM Post #10 |
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Whitebeard
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Look at it again, her head moves up and down ever so slightly, and given the game's crap character movements in cutscenes, it's not a stretch to imagine what's going on there.
At least try to use a different saying, instead of the one you've used four or five times today alone.
You seem to forget that Amy begs Sonic to marry her in almost every 3D game (And even Sonic X) she's been in. That's totally platonic, lemme tell ya... >_> Edited by Beta_Ray_Banhammer, Aug 24 2008, 12:00 PM.
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| SuperShadowgal | Aug 24 2008, 12:16 PM Post #11 |
The Female Ultimate Life Form!
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I really have nothing wrong with the idea of two different species having a relationship. It's a game, and the Sonic series isn't the only thing that's probably done this (but naming examples of cartoons that probably do this, puts me at a loss). Although I have not played the game, I must say, Elise doesn't look like she's even giving a passionate kiss. It seems like a quick kiss; typical to that of a princess kiss (reviving a princess who has fallen under a spell). There are many ways to harness a Chaos Emerald's power. Elise chooses to chant it, to make the miracle happen. And from what I see the kiss did something to in turn drain her "power."
I don't imagine Amy really warming up to the thought that some girl is making out with Sonic in front of her, if that were the case. Edited by SuperShadowgal, Aug 24 2008, 12:20 PM.
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The navigation (links): Sonic FCs /|\ Art /|\ Hug? /|\ Awesome /|\ Free Cake /|\ Internets /|\ My Adoptables Latest blog entry: SSG Plays Pokemon White Version 2! Part 3! (11/3/12) *=Outdated   Help the dragons grow big and stwong. There used to be music here ~ | |
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| Beta_Ray_Banhammer | Aug 24 2008, 12:20 PM Post #12 |
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Whitebeard
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Read this:
If you had seen the rest of the scenes you would know that the character movements are clunky and uncordinated. |
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| Lady BlizShadow | Aug 24 2008, 12:21 PM Post #13 |
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I still can't use this.
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Hardly. I've watched it three times, and I simply don't see any bobbing movements no matter how much you keep trying to hammer the notion into me. Therefore, let's move off of this point and be inclined to agree to disagree. And btw, the "crap character movements" are due to motion capture within the in-game cutscenes. This footage isn't in-game, however, so that's a bit irrelevant. I really don't need to if the point still stands in light of the fact that we have proven that the scene has different meanings for different people, and I've already given a huge argument as to why I think all types of Sonic relationships are acceptable which you really didn't dispute against. This is ignoring the fact that your point is just totally irrelevant to the topic at hand. You also seem to forget that her character is that of an idealist 14 year old girl (a 14 year old girl who says she wants to marry someone? How strange), and the ideal would be for her to settle down with the guy who has saved her plenty of times. But I digress, I don't deny that she has an obvious crush on Sonic. However, regardless of her disgusting come ons, she actually does care for Sonic to the point that she would risk taking a potentially fatal blow from Silver. That action supersedes any empty marriage proposal and proves that she cares for him on levels above what she usually displays with the Tom and Jerry act. Even better is, Sonic recognized this show of bravery in return and gave thanks. There was a mutual understanding between each other at that point. |
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Because staff made me do it. =P Art Topic ~ Drawing Tutorial ~ The Seven Chaos Forum | |
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| SuperShadowgal | Aug 24 2008, 12:24 PM Post #14 |
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The Female Ultimate Life Form!
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I watched the video, I see nothing. Just a quick peck, no bobbing, no movement. |
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The navigation (links): Sonic FCs /|\ Art /|\ Hug? /|\ Awesome /|\ Free Cake /|\ Internets /|\ My Adoptables Latest blog entry: SSG Plays Pokemon White Version 2! Part 3! (11/3/12) *=Outdated Help the dragons grow big and stwong. There used to be music here ~ | |
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Cy-Fox
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Aug 24 2008, 12:25 PM Post #15 |
We are still watching
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I don't see interspecies as a problem. In fact, I advocate it having my main pairing as Tails and Maria Robotnik. Really, if you look at it from a scientific point, Sonic and company are sentient, alien lifeforms. Interspecies has been brought up before, even before now in the 1950s with the original Star Trek with the parentage of Commander Spock (a humanoid alien known as a Vulcan). His father, Ambassador Sarek was a full blooded Vulcan. His mother, Amanda Grayson, was a human. And everyone back then, accepted it. |
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